User talk:Blue Rook/Archive 11

Welcome to my Talk page, 24 fans!
 * While you're here, feel free to rummage through the archives of previous discussions:
 * 10 (newest), 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 (oldest)
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 *  (Let me know if you will expect a reply right here, or on your own Talk page as per the Wikipedia norm.) 

Delete?
Why was the page Edwards delete? It had a source and there was no reason to delete it. I was not making it up. Please explain! --Station7 19:22, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * The explanation was left in the deletion action, see [|here], you should be able to see the words: not a person; "Edward’s air force base". There is no person named "Edwards", apparently it's the name of an Air Force Base. Just like there is no guy named "Davenport" when Davenport Airfield is mentioned. 21:38, September 25, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the explanation. I totally understand it. --Station7 09:48, September 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just noticed there is a page for it too this whole time: Edwards Air Force Base. 17:42, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Source
Do you know where the source comes from that J. J. Perry played in season 7? I would love to know it. --Station7 11:46, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's here--Acer4666 12:44, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * THat's a good enough source for me :) --Station7 19:12, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

Vacation
Good luck on your vacation :) --Station7 16:22, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it was an excellent, much-needed reunion with the 7 best guys I met in college. 17:42, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Featured Article
Hey man, hope you're having a good time away! Just to let you know we're tied for the featured article, and I kind of proposed a solution that we go with the split screen article for now as your support was (sort of) dependent on alterations to Nina's article. If you feel this is underhand and sneaky (haha) and you see this, do let me know! If not, I'll change it tonight and we can always switch it when you get back after discussion. Hope I've done the right thing!--Acer4666 11:44, October 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Feel free to ignore the above, User:William.Y.Fremont has cast the deciding vote and Nina Myers is featured!--Acer4666 13:24, October 6, 2011 (UTC)

Soundtracks
Should we include every expanded soundtrack alubm. It would be nice to add them to the encyclopedia. :) --Station7 21:08, October 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Which ones are missing? 17:42, October 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I mean this ones! --Station7 16:51, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hey Station7, all those soundtracks are fan made and unofficial. At the start the guy that made them explains he's just ripped the music from the tv program. So, unfortunately they don't have a place on the encyclopedia!--Acer4666 09:24, October 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much Acer, I thought they were real, and I believe you, but how do you know this? ;) --Station7 14:00, October 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah ha, the age old philosophical dilemma - the burden of proof is not on me to prove they're not official, but on you to prove they are official. For example - should we include this in the encyclopedia? It's hard to conclusively determine that it's not official, but we don't include it because there's no proof it is official. You see?--Acer4666 (talk) 16:33, October 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Regardless, that was hilarious... at least for an IT guy that lived through the 90s :-D Thief12 02:15, October 15, 2011 (UTC)

Bern's dossier
Hey Blue Rook! I hope you enjoy your trip to Philly. Since you are back now,I'd like to ask you whether you get a screenshot for me:S04E21, at the time of 14:52 to 14:54, it shows Howard Bern's file. I 'd like to see If I can add anything to his page. --William 15:23, October 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll give it a shot soon. Just had a 17-hour workday! 04:40, October 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Took awhile but here it is. I hope you are able to translate something interesting from it! 04:10, October 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay I emailed a few screens of the other view of the paper to ya directly. It's my opinion they aren't good enough quality to be of use for upload here. 04:39, October 20, 2011 (UTC)

Day 7 conspiracy
Could you tell me how the conspiracy from Day 7 worked from A-Z? I know who works for who as I see on the page Day 7 antagonists, but how the whole conspiracy works. It's too much to understand (not on the Cabal, but everything) --Station7 16:49, October 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * If Blue Rook allows me to butt in, I can give you the runaround:
 * The whole conspiracy was - for most of its part - organized by the Prion variant cabal, led by Alan Wilson.
 * Their intention was to launch several attacks (using the prion variant) to destabilize the US while gaining military power and control for themselves.
 * To develop the prion variant, the cabal first gave support to Benjamin Juma and the People's Freedom Army in Sangala for another coup d'etat (this is what happens in Redemption).
 * Once Juma had power, he allowed the cabal to develop and test the prion variant in Sangala.
 * The development of the prion variant was led by Starkwood, which was owned by one of the members of the cabal, Jonas Hodges.
 * Juma's coup and his subsequent civil rights violations prompted the US to consider military action against Sangala.
 * At this point, the whole conspiracy unravels in two directions: First, the attacks orchestrated by Iké Dubaku and then Juma on Washington, to force the US to retreat from Sangala. And second, the arrival of the prion variant from Sangala to the Port of Alexandria and their attempted use by Starkwood.
 * Dubaku and Juma planned several attacks to force President Taylor to retreat from Sangala: the near-crash of Flight 117 and Flight 35, the crash of Flight 471 and Flight 131, the kidnapping of Ule Matobo, and the attack on the White House. Tony Almeida had infiltrated one of the groups that collaborated with this attacks.
 * Once the prion variant arrived that night at the Port of Alexandria, Hodges decided to use it himself by launching an attack with Python missiles. This was done against the wishes of the cabal, mostly to benefit Starkwood instead of the companies of his co-conspirators.
 * After Starkwood's attack was foiled, Tony and Robert Galvez stole a canister of the prion variant and brought it to the cabal.
 * The cabal planned to use the remaining canister to develop more prion variants, in order to orchestrate their attacks later that year.
 * Tony convinced the cabal to lead an attack that same night, taking advantage of the already weakened government. Obviously, he was doing this to get closer to Wilson and his eventual revenge.
 * The planned attack was to force an innocent pawn, Jibraan Al-Zarian, to release the prion variant in Washington Center Station.
 * When Jack foiled the plan, Tony convinced the cabal to kidnap Jack and harvest the prion variant from him, since he had been infected.
 * When Wilson decided to personally oversee the operation, Tony tried to kill him, but they were both captured.
 * I think that's basically it. I don't know if I left something out, but I tried to be as simple as I could. My apologies to Blue Rook for butting in. Thief12 19:07, October 16, 2011 (UTC)

Just one word: wow. I love this. --Station7 19:30, October 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Big thanks Thief for outlining everything like that! To be clear, I agree that Thief is right on every point, and the only thing I could do is restate the same stuff which isn't really necessary. But it might be helpful go into more detail on 2 specific characters.
 * I do want to mention more details about Tony's actions and motivations since he's such a wild card in Season 7, and so potentially confusing. It's always good to remember that was never working for anyone but himself, and his motive was strictly revenge about Michelle. Tony was his own mole in at least 3 separate groups: Emerson's band beneath Juma and Nichols (even though Emerson was the guy who revived him); Jack/Buchanan/Chloe (despite his years of outstanding civil service with them); and Cara's unit working directly for the Cabal. He betrayed all 3 without blinking just for the chance to face Wilson.
 * And, just to re-emphasize, Hodges was always working to benefit Starkwood and himself. He used the Prion Cabal to get the funding and connections in order to create the bio-weapon in Sangala, but his intent was to steal the canisters (and not to turn them over for the Cabal's original scheme). He and Seaton already had that huge ultimatum typed out to hand-deliver to President Taylor. Galvez was a mole in Starkwood working for the Prion Cabal who helped them recoup their loss. 02:36, October 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. I did wanted to be as "simple" as I could've been, considering how convoluted 24 conspiracies get, and felt that adding a thorough explanation of Tony's motives would've made it more complex. But that was one fine explanation.
 * If I might add a brief footnote, I really liked this season. I don't know if it was the fact that it came after what is arguably the worst season of the show, or that it came after a year-long vacation of the show, or that it featured the return of my favorite character (Tony), but I really felt it was a tighter season, and more carefully constructed than others. It is probably my 3rd favorite season. Thief12 16:23, October 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Another question: Why were Benjamin Juma and his crew going to the White House? --Station7 10:13, October 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Like I mentioned up there, it was their final attack to try to force the President and the USA to withdraw their military forces from Sangala. Thief12 15:09, October 22, 2011 (UTC)

David Palmer's death
But now another question: Who authorized the murder of David Palmer?


 * In one episode, they say it's Graem Bauer, while in another Walt Cummings, but in another one Christopher Henderson. So, which one is it? They all were named as the man behind the death of David Palmer, also it's logically to call Graem the man behind it. --Station7 19:30, October 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * The thing is that most of the conspirators either didn't know of the other parties involved, or were being manipulated into thinking they were in charge. So in the minds of some, they were the "masterminds". Plus, in subsequent episodes and seasons, higher-ranking masterminds have surfaced claiming to be the ones responsible for it. The more likely responsible are Christopher Henderson, Graem Bauer, and Alan Wilson. Thief12 19:40, October 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nathanson and Cummings were at least complicit in the assassination. And Henderson took responsibility for it, on top of the Natalia. However it does seem that Graem's season 6 confession was pretty damning. Later on, Papa Bauer admits having a "role" too. Finally, Wilson certainly seems to share some culpability as well. The way I see it: we'll never know which was the first conspirator who said "oh crap, Palmer's on to us, let's kill him" but it doesn't quite matter. They all helped it happen and supported it. 02:36, October 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, Philip Bauer played a part in it too ;) --Station7 09:44, October 17, 2011 (UTC)

News reporters playing themselves
Hey, just about the recent edit on Robert G. Beckel about whether we list the role/actor field as "himself" or "Bob Beckel" - for consistency I also changed Monica Elizabeth Crowley and Rick Garcia (actor) as well, but it seems on Talk:Rick Garcia (actor) the consensus is that it's ambiguous whether he's playing himself or a fictional version of himself, so we keep it open by just listing "Rick Garcia" as the character name. Shall I change them back, or do you disagree with the talk page consensus?--Acer4666 (talk) 14:33, October 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Regarding real world news readers who appear with their actual name on 24, the two options you put to describe this phenomenon are that he is "playing himself" or "[playing] a fictional version of himself". I don't know the difference between these, what did you mean exactly? In movie parlance, when someone appears "as himself", it of course means it's a fictional version of himself.
 * On the Garcia Talk page: that post was actually made less than 1 month after I joined the project, and it was my awkward attempt at proposing that we discuss the usage of the term "himself", because I was worried that trolls would try to force us to say Kevin Alejandro played "himself" because his character's first name was the same. It was kind of an irrational fear as you can tell, and not really germane to the discussion that CWY and Proudhug were trying to work through (heh, it reminds me of my first ever edit, which also demonstrates a similar kind of fear I was preoccupied with back then). 18:02, October 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I was just about to bring this up when I saw you reverted my edit to Robert G. Beckel's article. Kudos to Acer for thinking ahead of me. I, like Acer, was under the impression that we were supposed to list them by the name (even if it's the same) sorta like to establish that we were talking about a fictional version of the reporter. As redundant as it might seem, I think it's a safer road to write it as "Robert G. Beckel played Bob Beckel", instead of putting that he "played himself". IMO, that alternative is more akin to the scope we tend to have in this wiki. But let's see what everyone else thinks. Thief12 03:37, October 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * But to me it's just silly to have to say: "Robert G. Beckel played Bob Beckel". Anytime a sentence like that is possible, you are already in an OOU situation, and it is very normal to use an "as himself" phrasing of one kind or another when a person appears with the same name inside a fictional world. At the risk of sounding offensive (please trust that I'm not trying to be) phrases like "Robert G. Beckel played Bob Beckel" and "Rick Garcia played Rick Garcia" are, well... dumb. (Remember I'm not calling any person here "dumb".) 05:27, October 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * After a bit of research (haha), TV tropes describes the difference between the cases "Robert G. Beckel played Bob Beckel" and "Steve Lanza played Lanza". Check out As Himself and The Danza. The "as himself" page actually mentions the "newscaster cameo", the difference being that it's a newsreader playing a newsreader as opposed to an actor playing a gov't agent/terrorist. So, I think the newsreaders should have the "himself/herself" tag according to that convention, myself--Acer4666 (talk) 09:28, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Link fixing
I fixed the link to redirect Category:Characters portrayed by unknown performers. --Station7 19:08, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Aha, thanks, don't know why I didn't think of that! 19:23, November 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're welcome :) It's very easy. I had learned myself it too! --Station7 15:12, November 16, 2011 (UTC)

Palmer, Palmer and Palmer
I have a question about the situation of David Palmer after Day 3. Palmer was quiting himself with his job as President, but how was that situation with Sherry Palmer's death?

Did they covered it up? Was the police aware of it? What happened to their bodies? By the way, how was Wayne Palmer made a President, while he did bulgary during Day 3? Isn't that illegal?

--Station7 20:10, November 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nothing about that has been revealed, not as far as I know. It's just one of the limitations of storytelling when you only have less than 24 hours to have on the screen. It's a mystery. Kind of like what exactly happened to Martha Logan after Day 6. It was some tragic event, but, the writers left it up to us. 23:41, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

It would be ironic if they covered it up, just like Sherry Palmer covered up the death of Lyle Gibson! And now they would cover her death up! That would be ironic.

Yes, but you're right. What happened to Martha Logan is unknown. --Station7 10:10, November 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * I will say what I personally believe had happened: David seemed to be completely disillusioned with the political life, Sherry's mad web of corruption, and the personal costs that people like Anne Packard had to pay just for being close to him. So he refused to run for another term. He also would most probably refuse to take part in anything like a cover-up, so he came clean and so did Wayne. I assume this is what occurred because it seems impossible for David to sell out about this, but to refuse another shot at the office because he was carrying to much moral culpability for the dark things Saunders forced him to do. Since Wayne and Foxton were looking for evidence of murder, Wayne probably faced down the breaking-and-entering (and whatever other criminal) charges and came out smelling like roses, enough to win the presidency after the fiasco of Logan's term. 11:36, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

Editor change and mediawiki
Hey just to let you know, this morning a wikia-wide change made the editing window on this wiki have a grey background and white text. This made it hard to differentiate between the editable part of the editing screen and the non-editing part, and for source mode we don't really want the wiki stylings to show when editing. I took the liberty of making this edit to return it back to the way it was before today - hope you don't mind and agree with me about it - if you want you can revert my edit to see what it was like, and then maybe do a forum if people prefer new way. Dunno what u think? PS awesome work with the S8 stuff!--Acer4666 (talk) 13:44, November 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Whatever decision you made I trust implicitly; I'm not going to revert to see what it looks like. When it comes to mediawiki messages, I always worry about unintended side effects of tampering with them, but it seems that your edit was quite focused and only affected the color of that screen. Thanks man! 21:07, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Samir's 2nd Sniper
Hey, saw your addition of Samir's other sniper, who shared a scene with Michael Hilow. I'd take a guess at Ray Siegle, not sure what you think. Some of the other photos (not the main one) sell it a little better, but I'm not 100%.--Acer4666 (talk) 13:01, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ooh - just seen on imdb he's credited for stunts in the 4-5am episode. I didn't see that before making the ident, that m makes me a little more sure. I'll have to check out the other eps listed!--Acer4666 (talk) 15:02, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow, that has to be him I agree for sure. There's this other image I took of him, after he exits the passenger side of the SUV with Tarin, and the pictures really match up there too. Want to do the honors? 15:35, December 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Done!--Acer4666 (talk) 16:07, December 1, 2011 (UTC)