User talk:Blue Rook/Archive 1

This is the archive of all the discussions that took place on my Talk Page between 6 May 2007 and 30 January 2008.

Do not add to the discussions on this page; if you would like to ask about these topics, please re-open the discussion by posting here!

Look all the way down
Sorry, just figured out how to do this. Anyway, look all the way down. I'm guessing that you, like Prodhug, prefer you latest topics on top, but I'm not sure how to do that, amd I'm afraid to try anything. I'm SORRY that I don't know how to do it, and if I did know how, I would ok? Please don't get upset. But I've been really bored, and I want to come back. At this point, I believe waiting for season 7 is pointless, and sinse I'm not blocked, I pretty much have an invitation to come back any time. Also, I have come to the conclusion that as long as I speak constructively (which I admit, I have'nt yet) on anyone's talkpage, I should'nt be banned. He may not like me for my past bizzare commennts, but that does'nt give him much of a reason to not speak to me constructivly. Besides, I've searched and seen many rules and policys on this site, and so far, I have'nt seen any policy that says: IF YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK TO SOMEONE IN ANYWAY, IT'S OK TO BAN THEM IF THEY CONTINUE TO TALK TO YOU, EVEN IF THEY APOLOGISE AND/OR ACTUALY DO SPEAK TO YOU CONSTRUCTIVLY. So yeah, he may not have to like me, but he should still be able to discuss matters with me constructivly. Like I think it should be added to Tony's article that he has a slight bruise on his head in season 2, which right now, it says that he was unharmed. If it says that he's was'nt seriously injured, that's ok. But the main point is, I want to come back. How do you feel? Mabey you and Proudhug should dicuss it first. But whatever you do, please don't block me.--Black Kirby 23:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it is clear that you continue to misunderstand what occurred. This is all in the past... you were never banned. And the only way you face a block is if you bring it up again (the block would be for spamming, which is an offense that certainly merits a block, it is in the list of violations here). Yet you insist on bringing this up? It seems like you want one, or something? I can't imagine a way to say this again that is clearer!
 * The administrator you had tried to force to accept your apology has decided to forget the repeated policy violations instead of imposing a block, and has also exercised his freedom to cease communicating with you. Only he can change that of his own volition; I cannot, and neither can you, and trying to force it is spamming.
 * Above, you said (in all capital letters) that it is not permissible to ban someone for speaking constructively. This is true. Unfortunately, when you thought that you were being constructive, you were not, and were actually spamming. Repeatedly trying to force someone to accept an apology and then insulting their age and maturity is spamming and also trolling. None of this is acceptable. The matter seems to actually be that you feel mistreated by Proudhug, but since he didn't ban you and has decided not to speak again, he actually has done nothing to you, which isn't mistreatment. Once more, he and I actively tried to help with pointers but just in this recent post you have demonstrated persistent ineptitude:
 * 1. Continual, rampant spelling and grammatical errors in all your posts indicate that you do not care about the serious nature of a wiki encyclopedia or communicating with other community members.
 * 2. Instructions on how to post at the top of the page were, and have been, plastered right across the top of my talk page the whole time you were trying to post... and when you finally saw them, you didn't make an effort to change it.
 * 3. It took you five posts to make this message here. Although not necessarily a violation, this is bad form. You're supposed to click Show Preview before saving any changes to any page, and then, after reading it through for spelling errors and other changes, tailor it for saving.
 * On the topic of Tony's injury, sure, if he didn't have the bruise before the bombing, and then was seen with it afterward, you can certainly add that into his page (make sure it's free from spelling errors and flows properly with the rest of the article, and all should be good with that). – Blue Rook 22:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)contribs
 * That's the thing, I would, but it's on lock down.--Black Kirby 13:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks a lot for the Dead-on award - it shows that all the work I do here is good! :D I'm glad you like the work I've done so far, and hopefully I'll continue to make more useful edits! Thanks again - SignorSimon 19:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well you've been doing great work, and learning the ropes pretty quickly, so I wish I had something a little more than a small token like that. And I have no doubt you've got some great ideas for the future! I strategically mentioned the future to bring up something I've been meaning to ask you for help with ;) Do you think you can assist with some new icons for the Main Page banner? Currently, it's just the Jack Bauer placeholder on all of them. But if you check out Memory Alpha (the wiki for star trek that inspired this effort), you will see a number of other ones. Not all of them are box-shaped, like Jack there, and shape and picture variety would serve the appearance very well. If you want, you can jump in and start experimenting in the Wiki 24:Sandbox right away if you'd like, or toss some ideas around. Hope you can help, but please don't feel pressured here... nothing happens if you work on other projects instead :) – Blue Rook 20:43, 16 January 2008 (UTC)contribs


 * I'd love to help out with that, although I'd need some guidance as to what sort of images you wanted. I had a look at Memory Alpha, and I like the way the things arent all square (i.e. cut out shapes). I think that's the direction we need to take, using images of (this is off the top of my head) a gun, just Jack's face, a dvd box etc. What do you think? SignorSimon 21:15, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not too strong in the creativity department, so I need ideas like that too. Those sound good: so far, I can think of a season 6 DVD box cover (with a disc visible coming out one side) for the Media banner pic, a staged promotional photo of a season's cast or a picture of a packed situation room for the Community pic, something exploding for the Areas to Improve pic (it's hard to find a clear explosion photo, though), a cropped portrait of David Palmer for People, and two or three more to toy around with. If you find these easy to make, make a bunch and maybe we can get a vote going. If not, and you're like me (takes forever to make one) just go with your gut! – Blue Rook 01:23, 17 January 2008 (UTC)contribs


 * I copied this conversation to the Main Page talk page, since it's more a community decision. --Proudhug 03:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Can you please help me!!!
A couple of days ago I made the National Intelligence Agency article, and just before I was looking at a screenshot from the US game, and it appears as if the logo was actually that of CTU, not NIA.... if you have a copy of the game, could you please have a look in the "Through the Agency" mission, and see if the emblems inside the building are that of CTU, NIA or CIA. Just note that in the version I have the logo of CIA and NIA are very similar so please read the label thingy around the edge of the logo. Thankyou so much, I hope I'm not bothering you too badly! BillBuchanan24 00:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Hey man you're not a bother, not at all (that's what these pages are for). The problem is that I never got to play through 24 The Game. I really wish I could help with this, but I don't even own the right gaming console. I'd check if I could but here I'm pretty useless. Sorry Bill!– Blue Rook 09:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)contribs


 * Ok, thanks for your time anyway! BillBuchanan24 21:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Filmographies
Do you have any opinion on this? --Proudhug 18:37, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I do actually, I read that thread just a few weeks ago. In fact I had this in mind those days back when I re-listed the awardees of the Dead-On Award so the latest were moved to the top.
 * My take is that we continue to go with the industry standard of placing newest films at the top of the lists and then descend reverse-chronologically. Given the biographical nature of the lists, I can see why the industry chose to list items in this manner, since it is in the actor's best interest to have latest material listed first, and more interesting for the readers to see the latest projects the actor is working on. As for deceased actors, theirs remain listed in as such on account of the industry custom.
 * I have not seen a web filmography listed in regular chronological order (oldest first) so to implement this would be unprecedented (not to mention confusing for site visitors). Considering one of the arguments you had mentioned in the original thread — that all other lists here on wiki 24 are chronological, so why should these be different — I think that it is appealing to the wrong precedent. There is no unspoken rule floating around that says "dated lists on a wiki should always either be chronological or reverse-chronological, there shalt be no mixing of the two." To change the lists for the sake of some kind of intra-wiki consistency would entail a colossal effort to produce minimal results (actor lists would simply be switched around) that would serve only to break precedent and ignore the customary viewing preferences and industry standard. – Blue Rook 09:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)contribs

Where the hell is Chase Edmunds???
At the bottom of your page, you pose the question "where the hell is Chase Edmunds" as well as a few other people.... I thought I should make the note, maybe he was anihilated by the suitcse nuke in Day 6... he was working in Valencia.... Oh, by the way, love your animated gif thing... BillBuchanan24 22:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Chase was in Valencia over three years before the nuke went off. There's a good chance he wasn't there any more.  Three years before Day 3, he was in D.C., so he clearly gets around. --Proudhug 01:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey there, yes BillBuchanan24, it's definitely quite possible that he was blown up if he settled down there. But there's no way to be sure yet. Something tells me that he, still being a young guy and all, made several other moves. Judging from the way things seem to be going with the series, he may well return as the 1-handed supervillain for season 8! - Blue Rook 04:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well maybe he will come back.... that'd be awesome... and are details about the Season 7 trailer considered spoilers??? BillBuchanan24 10:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Season 7 spoilers (or any spoilers for that matter) are not allowed in the articles or images. If by your question you mean, "are we allowed to talk about that here," then yes, we can always discuss all 24 matter in user space, talk pages, and especially user talk pages. The spoiler policy is there to limit articles, not our ability to talk about them! - Blue Rook 09:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You know the trailer that was released.... is that a spoiler? BillBuchanan24 11:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, why do you ask? Information in that trailer cannot be posted in articles until the first episode of the season airs. - Blue Rook 12:02, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok thanks! I just noticed that there wasn't a page for it, and as we don't get the Prequel things in Australia, I wasn't sure of the difference... BillBuchanan24 22:54, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

TAKE A BREAK!
You're like a machine (if not using one already). --Deege515 02:36, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Gif
You gotta stop editing your user page, man. Whenever I check out whatever you may have changed, I'm forced to look at your cool animated gif. Makes me chuckle every time. --Deege515 04:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late response man, but yeah, I'm glad you like it! I'm thinking of making a Shrine to the animated-gif eventually. ;) - Blue Rook 04:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Vandal
Good job handling the mass vandalism attack. Wish I'd been here to help you out. Just a quick question: I only put in about 10 seconds of thought as to why you moved a few pages around. I can't figure that out. Please explain your rationale behind this. --Deege515 05:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Most of the vandal's attacks were page moves from "article title" to "article title PELICAN SH*T!!!", so all those moves you saw that I did were from the new vandal-titled pages back to the old, which means I had to delete the old (since he changed them to redirects) so I could move the original material (including the page histories) back. I then deleted the vandal-titled pages, which had no histories beyond his creation of them. Take a look at his/her edit history, you can see the titles of the new pages the vandal moved to.
 * I can understand why this would be confusing to someone just looking at the recent changes; if you still don't catch what happened, or have a better way to undo page moves, plop it here. – Blue Rook 14:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)contribs

Maya11
I noticed that you blocked Maya a few days back although she hasn't (detrimentally) contributed anything for nearly a year. All right, acceptable, I suppose. I guess no statutes of limitations exists with you, heh. --Deege515 02:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The last straw was naming a character after herself; that's where somebody has to draw the line. As for statutes of limitations... it's a wiki, not the supreme court :P  She trolled long and hard, fabricated character names from whole cloth, sock puppet-ed extensively, threatened the wiki once, and then left it all for people who actually care to sort out. Isn't that far more insidious than the run-of-the-mill, infantile vandalism, yes? – Blue Rook 04:59, 7 September 2007 (UTC)contribs

Formatting disambiguation pages
I'm not sure the headings are really necessary for most of the disambiguation pages. For a page that only has one or two things under each heading, it only serves to make the page longer and, in my opinion, unnecessarily unappealing to read. Perhaps for some of the pages with a ton of items, it might be advantageous to put headings in, but for the most part I don't see any point to it. --Proudhug 19:16, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Arrighty, I'll just skim through from time to time for the larger ones and quit messing with the small ones. As for the small ones I have already changed, what do you say we leave them as such, since they can only get larger over time? – Blue Rook 19:22, 3 July 2007 (UTC)contribs

The disambiguation pages are part of one of my current projects in progress, so I'm trying to come up with a somewhat nice-looking and consistent format. I haven't completely figured out how I'm going to do it all yet, but other than making suggestions, I'd prefer people stick to merely adding to the pages, rather than reordering or reformatting them, for the time being. --Proudhug 19:32, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

User profiles
Thanks for doing all that. I've never felt comfortable imposing upon the sanctity of other people's profiles, but I guess if we make everyone's empty profiles like that, then it shouldn't be an issue. --Deege515 06:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm glad that you approve; if any one of them has any problems, they can always blank that note off their page. Btw, should I have replied on your talk page on this topic, or was posting here good? – Blue Rook 06:32, 12 June 2007 (UTC)contribs


 * I prefer talk pages to be more in a forum style so that other readers can read the flow of a conversation all on same page, rather than having to bounce back and forth between each talk page, like it's an e-mail conversation. This is especially necessary, since other users are welcome to chime into the conversation, and the logistics of making a 3+-way conversation across multiple talk pages would make navigating the original subject a tad hellish. --Deege515 06:53, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * On second thought, something else has come to mind. The reasoning behind a link being red is so you know that there's going to be nothing there when you click on the link. Users will be disappointed to find out that a user's page has nothing but a "there's nothing here" disclaimer. They can't really get any redemption out of it either, unless they write a stalkerish life story about that particular user. --Deege515 07:41, 12 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, I got the first part... the last bit, though I wasn't too clear on? I don't think other users would write in the userpage with the stub notice just to get rid of the notice (only the user himself would wind up doing that, which is a good thing). If you were being sarcastic, yes I agree, they wouldn't be stalkers. But, concerning the first part, I consider the inconvenience of finding a userpage with just a stub on it to be overall an unfortunate but necessary tradeoff/by-product of clearing out the Wanted Pages from clutter (which was my only goal... if the wanted pages didn't have userpages in them, I would never have bothered with—or been able to even do—this). Do you feel the tradeoff is worse, overall? – Blue Rook 12:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)contribs

Welcome to the ranks!
Due to your diligent efforts in fully exposing and squashing the work of the Maya11 troll in all her incarnations, as well as your persistent attention to the details of the 24verse, I'm hereby appointing you our newest administrator! With nearly a thousand edits to Wiki 24 in less than two months, and every one being a delightful addition to the site, you've quickly and aptly learned our policies and procedures as well as anyone could, and proven yourself an exceptional asset to the site. Your constant presence here will make you an invaluable community leader, I'm sure. We're delighted to have you on board, Blue Rook! --Proudhug 02:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Good work, Blue Rook. I was actually going to get around to recommending you, myself. --Deege515 04:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been speechless for the better part of the last hour. No really, a bee stung my tongue and I've been muted and drooling all over my keyboard ;D I genuinely appreciate the votes of confidence these past few weeks, and all your work with the awesome little community here. It has been a great pleasure contributing here, and it will be a fantastic experience for me to help maintain this place with all of you. This promotion adumbrates how I will pretty much be spending the rest of this summer... and goddamn, what a good summer it will be! – Blue Rook 05:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)contribs

Blakeney
You asked for Blakeney... he was the press secretary aboard Air Force One on Day 4. Day 4 10:00pm-11:00pm. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:BauerJ24, on 09:52, 5 June 2007


 * I dropped one on your talk page. If you ever get the time in an episode where he (or she, as the original page creator claims) is identified, I will be the first one to resurrect that page (admins can work with deleted crap). Let me know of any source that you happen to find, otherwise, I'll be happy to let this ghost from Maya11 haunt only the realm of the unseen.– Blue Rook 05:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)contribs

Zhou
Zhou last name might be Yong after all. I have uploaded a clip from the show and you can decide for yourself. Here is the address: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/gatty790/zhou.mp3 -Gatty790 20:48, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice catch man, I put your find and the link over at the Zhou talk page... I'm trying to confirm this with Mongol at wikipedia, if I get an answer, I will post it at the Zhou talk page and then we get a consensus after all. Thanks for your work in tracking this down and trying to figure it out! – Blue Rook 17:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)contribs


 * No problem, I enjoy a little 24 treasure hunt now and then. - Gatty790 01:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Pic names
Please review the Image use policy. It's a good idea to give images clear names when uploading them. --Proudhug 13:17, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah yeah my bad. The only reason I didn't rename those three was because I plan to use them on my userpage, and didn't think anyone would want them anywhere on the main space. While we're on the topic, is there any policy or unspoken rules about user sub pages? I have a small project that would look terrible integrated into my main userpage, and figured I could just link to its own sub page instead. Go/no go? – Blue Rook 15:31, 6 May 2007 (UTC)contribs

It's your userpage, so I say knock yourself out. Presumably it's at least marginally about 24, right? Even if it's not, unless you begin using Wiki 24 as a dumping ground for random text and images I personally don't have a problem with subpages. I figure the more our editors want to share with us, especially their own projects, the closer we become as a community! :D --Proudhug 20:42, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah excellent! Yes for the record it is quite 24-related. It won't be up for a few days because I'm powering through finals week right now (actually more like slogging through... slogging while suffering from a severe migraine, acute polonium-210 radiation poisoning, and a gunshot wound to the abdomen). But when it's up, I hope everyone enjoys it. – Blue Rook 06:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)contribs


 * Okay, it's finally finished. I just wish I could get the names of the actors who played the two conspirator extras... – Blue Rook 19:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)contribs

Adam and Jason
These guys need separate articles, even though they're not distinguishable. We had someone do the same thing with Safa and Naji once. --Proudhug 00:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Alrighty, but how should I distinguish between them? They are not credited (background notes), unlike Safa and Naji. Do you know which one is which? I was tempted to say that the guy with the shotgun was Adam, and the guy with the fuller hair and silenced pistol was Jason, but that would be arbitrary decision on my part. – Blue Rook 00:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)contribs

There's no need to distinguish. Just put the same picture up for both and leave a background note stating that it's unknown which is which character. I remember seeing an example of this on Memory Alpha once, but I can't find it now. --Proudhug 00:46, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * On it like scales on a snake. So, if I reasoned inductively from this and said that it is this website's policy to always give named characters their own individual pages, would I be right? – Blue Rook 01:48, 29 April 2007 (UTC)contribs

List pages are the only ones about more than one person. We try to create a page for every individually named person, place and thing from the show, regardless of whether or not there's any unique information. Here's the deleted discussion from the "Safa and Naji" page:


 * Don't these two each deserve their own page? This is the only page like this that I've seen on the site. Every other character, no matter how minor, gets their own page. I understand that both of them do the same thing and essentially have the same role, but it seems very odd to me that we only have one page like this on the site. If no one has any objections I'd like to change this into two different pages. I'll change the links on the corresponding pages as well. - Xtreme680


 * I agree 100%. --Proudhug 21:55, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Ha, you're right. This was either the first or one of the first pages I made, and I was going to do separate pages, but for some reason decided not to.  I wasn't familiar enough with Wiki24 to know any better, and I have never gone back to fix it.  But I agree, they should each have their own page... --Kapoli 23:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

No one's brought up any arguments for combined character pages before, so as of now, this sounds like a good policy to me. The only other closest thing we've had was the unnamed conspirators page, but that was changed, too. --Proudhug 01:56, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Image categories
Yeah, I'm still working through them, rather sporadically I guess. Basically right now I'm just going through the character page of all the characters and adding the image category to all the images on that page. I know there are a lot more images than that, but at least that's a start. There are still a lot of images in Special:Uncategorizedimages so that may be where I go after this. If you know of anything else needs to be done in the categorizing area (or any area I guess), feel free to let me know.--Jonpro 17:17, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Welcome!, Part 2
First off, let me just say that you're doing some superb work here on the site. You've only been here a short while, but have already proven yourself an invaluable asset, easily on your way to Admin status, if you so desire. I'm looking forward to seeing you stick around for a long while and finding out what else you'll be contributing. Wiki 24 has forged through some rough times and I sometimes wish I'd missed that phase, too, but it's a necessary evil and the result is a beautifully polished site that seems to be doing its job in attracting skilled editors such as yourself. I greatly enjoyed reading your Villains @ Large ranking system. It's reassuring to see that I'm not the only one who pays strict attention to minutiae such as this.

... And I only remember Morrison because I just rewatched those episodes recently, though I do remember Television Without Pity having fun with Keith Szarabajka's name. --Proudhug 22:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Very nice! Your note was like a dose of adren. I'm generally not a fast-track-to-success type of guy, but hey, this works. And since I'm neither a terribly good actor, nor one for strategic equivocation or verbal (or typed, for that matter) legerdemain, I'll answer with an emphatic "yes" to the prospect of increased responsibility here. Thank you, for this encouraging post Proudhug! – Blue Rook 00:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)contribs

Robert Morrison
Damn, you're right. I have no idea who the hell Robert Morrison was; and even after reading the article, I still don't remember who he was. --Deege515 21:16, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Aha! You see, that is the sign of a good villain at work. You don't remember him because he was like a snake riding a bolt of greased lightning. A fireproof snake, of course... and a nearly invincible one, at that. Well, okay bad analogy. But he was a tricky bastage. He skipped an episode too, just to throw us off... – Blue Rook 00:07, 20 April 2007 (UTC)contribs

Tracking the Override
Thanks for the summary of the Dobson Override, but why not incorporate that section into the article itself? --Proudhug 16:45, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure man no problem. By incorporate, do you mean make a paragraph out of it? I had considered doing that, but wound up with the bullet points because I figured it would be easier to peruse for the eye. Also I tend not to write about objects like I do for people so it's partially my own bias, not just aesthetic reasoning I confess. You're the man in charge, though, so would you prefer that I should format that into a paragraph? — Blue Rook 17:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I meant, one or more paragraphs. Ultimately, the "completed" main section of the article would already include all of the bulleted information, so your section would become redundant eventually anyway.

And ego aside, As admin, I may be one of several in charge of the operation of the site and enforcement of our rules, but technically, we're all in charge of how things look and run at Wiki 24. Anytime you feel something should be changed, added, or omitted, you're always free to discuss it in The Situation Room or on the appropriate Talk page. I may be a community leader here, but it is still a community and everyone has a say. I only clarify this because there have been issues in the past. Happy editing! :) --Proudhug 17:27, 15 April 2007 (UTC)