There are a number of characters who can only be found in DVD deleted scenes. I'm looking through the Season 4 special features, and I count five of them: Alam (Safa and Naji's father), Marwan's wife and son, Azara (a CTU agent), and Steven Wiseman (landlord at 24878 Alvert Street). I say characters like this each get their own OOU page describing what they did, and how their scenes differ from the real-IU events. It won't look like the usual character page so there won't be any confusion among visitors, and they'll have their own category. Let me know what you think. – Blue Rook 04:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)talkcontribs
- I agree they definately should get pages. How would we link to them? I guess they could be in the "dramatic personae" section under a different heading? SignorSimon 07:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
- I would have no idea where would be appropriate to link to them besides the Deleted scenes page. Also, I can't tell if for example, Alam, should even be listed with the standard categories that his canonical sons were listed with. Safa has three categories, so which of these if any are appropriate for Alam to have? – Blue Rook 15:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)talkcontribs
- All of them, as well as a "Deleted scenes characters" or something along those lines. SignorSimon 16:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I'd meant to suggest this a long time ago, but never got around to it. Deleted characters are separate items that do deserve their own OOU articles (as Rook said, they should look distinct from IU articles). They can be linked on the episode pages' dramatis personaes under "Deleted scenes" or something, as well as on a special "Characters from deleted scenes" article. As for categorizing, I think they should only be included in a "deleted scenes characters" category; they technically didn't appear IU, so they can't be put in with other IU characters that really do exist in the 24verse. --Proudhug 16:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- Good good. One thing I'd like to avoid like the plague is having normal characters wind up in the "Dramatis personae: Deleted characters" subheading. People might start adding Jack and Tony because they appeared with Steven Wiseman, so this must be a strictly interpreted definition of "deleted characters".
- Speaking of Wiseman, I made his page as an example we can tamper with if needed. Listed below are all the alterations I've made from a normal character article:
- The Sidebar now has Deleted from for special use with these characters. We shouldn't use Appeared in because... they didn't appear.
- Article is written in the present/present-progressive tense; no past tense is necessary because it's OOU.
- No need for "Background information and notes" at all.
- The headings will have Season X instead of Day X to help differentiate the pages from IU pages.
- Appearances heading specifically says "deleted appearances"
- There is an exclusive category just for them.
Sounds great. Just one thing, though. It might be weird to include entirely-deleted characters on episode pages' DPs, but not characters like Keith Palmer, who had deleted appearances. I think we should either include characters like Keith listed with characters like Alam in the DP, or restrict entirely-deleted characters' mention to the BG section. Does this make sense? --Proudhug 21:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- I think I follow: in other words, there is at least one episode where Keith didn't appear aired, but does show up in the deleted scenes for that episode. Assuming we want to list him in DPersonae, which I think is an acceptable idea, this has 2 answers depending on a certain detail: did he get a credit? 1) If he did get one for this episode, it should say "credit only" at this time. I'm thinking we'd then move it down to Deleted appearances and have it say "actor name" as "character name" (received Guest star credit). 2) If he did not receive a credit, which I think is the most common case, we just go ahead and stick him right in there under Deleted appearances without any parenthetical stuff.
- In a different topic, more broadly, the DPersonae subheading Deleted appearances won't include folks who did appear in the episode, such as Jack, right? Also, Keith won't be categorized here: Category:Non-canon characters, right? – Blue Rook 21:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)talkcontribs
Yup, we're on the exact same page. --Proudhug 22:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
- That's a good process, and I'll implement it myself whenever I find those instances. For right now though (since I never took note of those occurrences), I have no memory to work with about such characters, so if you find those eps with Keith and other examples, you'll be the one who gets that part of the process of the ground. I'll be much quicker at adding the wholly-deleted characters to that DPersonae subheading. – Blue Rook 22:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)talkcontribs
So to confirm: characters that appear in deleted scenes as well as in proper episodes... do we include that information anywhere? And would they be in the Deleted characters categ? SignorSimon 22:10, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
- Short answers: "yes, over in" to the first question, and then "no" for the second. I'll spell this out, as it will help me understand this more thoroughly as well:
- If Jack appeared in an episode (no surprise there) and also in 1 or more deleted scenes from that same episode, the only place this will be noted is on the Deleted scenes page. Nothing is mentioned about this in the Dramatis personae list, so Jack is just listed there wherever he was credited. (I suppose it could be mentioned in Background/notes, but why bother?)
- As for your second question, the category where Steven Wiseman is placed (Category:Non-canon characters), Jack in the above example would not be placed there.
- Now, change the example from Jack to Keith Palmer, as Proudhug brought up. Even though he apparently appeared strictly in the deleted scenes of a certain specific episode, he too still does not get added to Category:Non-canon characters. The category is for characters that do not canonically exist. The only difference between this example and Jack's is what happens in Dramatis personae. 1) If Keith WAS credited for his deleted appearance, the credit gets moved underneath the subtitle "Deleted appearances" where he will be listed with a parenthetical reference saying that he still received a "Guest star" or "Co-star" credit. 2) If Keith WAS NOT credited, he simply goes under "Deleted appearances". No parenthetical reference is needed to say he was uncredited, because he didn't even appear. Does this answer? – Blue Rook 22:54, 21 June 2008 (UTC)talkcontribs
Yep, I understand now, thanks a lot! SignorSimon 06:39, 22 June 2008 (UTC)