Summary of unresolved archive issues
Archiving the talk page again (and probably for good). The page is way to long for people to chime in so I'd like to summarize key info and open up for discussion. Kudos to Blue Rook for the format which I will shamelessly copy. Credits go to contributors including Acer4666, BattleshipMan, Blue Rook, Gunman6, OneWeirdDude, Station 7, SuperbowserX, Thief12, myself and others. Here are the topics I'd like to review:
- + 6 Downey Holding Facility shootout in 3x05: Here's what I thought. When the SWAT first breached in Ramon and Jack knocked out two prisoners, a dark-hair stuntman who doubled for John Meier (whom I think is Mike Smith) and Christopher Whitman who doubled for Jalil Jay Lynch respectively. Then the SWAT guys tossed two grenade, with the second one detonated at the feet of two blond inmates and blown them up. A shootout ensued between the prisoners and SWAT. Three inmates were seen firing weapons: Yoshi Ando and a Caucasian guy were firing behind a cart and a third bald guy was hiding behind a pillar. and only one inmate was specifically seen getting shot and killed. We can't see much due to the chaos and suddenly a fourth guy next to a big laundry machine was shot and the SWAT called it all clear. Also three bodies (excluding Peel) can be seen lying on the ground during and in the aftermath of the shootout. So my questions are:
- Were the SWAT guys using non-lethal flashbangs or frag grenades? Given the scenario it looks like lethal ones as there were rubbles and flames can be seen on the ground. So the two blond inmates were indeed killed, though their bodies were not seen in the aftermath, likely a continuity error.
- The three bodies that were actually seen during the fire exchange. First guy, lower right, second guy and third guy. I don't know who the hell is the person on the left who seems to be crouching. I don't think the SWAT would give the all-clear if there was still an inmate hiding there so I deem that this guy was likely a crew member? Those three were not the ones knocked out by Jack or Ramon so I counted them as dead.
- Yoshi Ando, the white guy and the bald guy were not seen killed although it was heavily implied. So I don't really count them in unless someone suggest otherwise.
- For the two blond guys hit by the grenade/flashbang - I'm tempted to not include them as dead, as the area where they were was seen multiple times after the flashbang detonated and there's no sign of them, suggesting they were not killed by it and escaped. here is the moment it detonates, and here is the area afterwards (I've circled in red where the flashbang detonated). You've mentioned this is a continuity error but given we don't know for sure that the explosives were lethal or not, but we have evidence that their bodies were not there, the most likely explanation is a non-lethal flashbang and they escaped.
- I agree with the first two of the dead bodies you've counted, but the third I'm pretty sure is the same as the man Ramon knocks out. Here he is just after being knocked out, and this shot is from another angle but it's the same position, and the guy is wearing the same stuff with the turnup jeans.
- So I would say: one guy seen to be shot, plus two dead bodies seen afterwards, makes three deaths during the shootout.--Acer4666 (Talk) 12:28, April 18, 2020 (UTC)
- + ? Saunders henchmen shootout in 3x22:
- - 1 Richard Heller residence shootout in 4x01:
- + ? Suvarov motorcade attack in 5x10:
- + 1 Fayed apartment terrorist in 6x08:
- + 1 White House shootout in 7x12:
- + 7 Tundel House perimeter shootout in 9x09:
- + 1 Shootout with Russian operatives in 9x11: