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Since a White House Press Secretary is a screamingly important executive branch official who is privy to state secrets, I've moved Logan's Press Sec back from unnamed civilians to unnamed government. It's true that everyone on the unnamed government page is a civilian. But the unnamed gov't page, the unnamed medical page, and the others exist so we can be more specific when possible. Do you feel that the Press Sec isn't a government official? Blue Rook  talk  contribs 09:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, since Jenny Dodge and Gerry Whitehorn etc. are not categorized as Government Officials, I assumed it was because they are not government officials. It wasn't consistent with Logan's Press Secretary. The Press Secretary is like those other "presidential aides" that I was talking about earlier on another talk page. I really don't know if a press secretary is a government official. I just moved it because it wasn't consistent with the others. I just realized all this should probably go on the talk page for Unnamed government officials, because other people might have opinions about it too. Sk84life 15:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Woops, those two and Wendy Brown weren't categorized there as a matter of incompletion. I'm stunned that I and others forgot to categorize them as such for so long!
With regard to the three unnamed "Presidential aides" you're referring to (those played by Margaret Easley, Dana Walters, and Stacy Solodkin): these aides are merely phone-answering staffers with no political influence of any kind. Working with government officials doesn't immediately make them one. We can judge if characters qualify as officials by what responsibilities they have and what they're privy to. Blue Rook  talk  contribs 16:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

IRK Aide acting head of securityEdit

Wasn't Nabeel the acting head of security after Tarin's arrest? Thief12 00:46, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

I was pretty sure it was this new guy, not Nabeel, because Omar said something like "I'll have my new acting head of security forward you the files". In the next scene he asks the unnamed guy to do specifically that, to get the colonel and arrange the task of the file transfer. Nabeel was just ferrying Tarin around. Blue Rook  talk  contribs 03:36, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
I thought the only reason he didn't ask Nabeel to do it was because he couldn't find him... Hassan asked and someone said they couldn't get in contact with him, so he used this guy. --SignorSimon (talk/contribs/email) 11:40, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
That's what I was going to say. Thief12 14:19, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
I just checked the episode. When Hassan meets with Taylor, he tells her that he'll call his acting head of security to authorize giving her the intel files she wanted. Right after that is the scene when Tarin pulls the gun on Nabeel, during which Hassan is trying to contact Nabeel on his cell phone. Hassan then tells his aide that he can't contact Nabeel and that he should send a security team to track him. He then tells him to call a colonel in Kamistan to send the intel files. Thief12 14:51, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
Nice catch gentlemen! I'll undo that reference. Blue Rook  talk  contribs 17:09, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Government officials or Civilians? Edit

I think we need to continue the issue on the difference between government official and civilian.

  • Is embassy workers government officials? We currently place the hostages at the embassy on this page, and label Leon (Day 6) and Elena as so, but I think they are just low-level staffers. They have no actual title or power in the government, merely run errands in the embassy. And they are no different than the Sangalan embassy aide. If we insist on keeping them here, we should list the Sangalan as well.
  • Is presidential aide government officials? I'm not sure about that. We list presidential aides from early days on Unnamed civilians page, but put tons of them from Day 7 and 8 on this page.

--William (talk) 10:04, June 5, 2014 (UTC)

If they're governmental aides then they should be on the government list or something similar no problem regardless of their ranking myself thinks.--Gunman6 (talk) 17:58, June 5, 2014 (UTC)
Need someone to weigh in. --William (talk) 14:18, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
I think that someone who works for the government, in an "office job" capacity - someone that in the UK would probably be termed a "civil servant" - should be on this page (bureaucrats/civil servants are mentioned in the introductory paragraph of wikipedia's article on government officials). That would include embassy workers, presidential aides, etc. It's more descriptive and useful to separate out the government workers rather than lump them together with all the other civilians, in my opinion.--Acer4666 (talk) 16:03, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
So now we accept low-ranking staffers as government officials? If so we need to move these aides and phone-taking staffers here. But personally I prefer to consider them U.S. Government workers. It just didn't make me feel well to see these low-level embassy workers on the same page with SecDef and Cabinet members.
And honestly I don't think Tim Felson, Frank (Day 1) and Barb are government officials. --William (talk) 12:07, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
City government officials still count - anything that's not the U.S. federal gov't should go in there for now. I don't know what the minimum standard should be for civilian vs. official, if there even is one. --Pyramidhead (talk) 17:54, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
US Harbormasters (like Frank) are described by wikipedia as "government officials", and Tim Felson seemed to be whatever the equivalent of a harbormaster is for a train station. Barb, a little shaky but she seems to have an administrative role in Child Protective Services, so I agree--Acer4666 (talk) 23:09, July 25, 2014 (UTC)
Despite this, I still want to remove the hostages and add them to the unnamed civilians page. I mean, yes, they are literally government officials, but we add characters to a category that fits them most, like how we treated "prisoner cockroach". He's no doubt a Sangalan government official, but all he did in the redemption was getting beheaded. And what these hostages did in the episode was cowering and moaning, while the rest of the characters on this page making political decisions or delivering messages to the presidents. To condlue, these hostages belong to the Unnamed civilians page because they are just civilian hostages in the episode. --William (talk) 08:00, August 23, 2014 (UTC)
We can't start classifying people based on whether we perceive them to be doing their job in the episode or not. It's arbitrary and open to interpretation, and also say this guy was only ever held at gunpoint, same with this guy, this guy just stood around and got run over. What makes prisoner cockroach no doubt a government official? If he is, then he belongs on the officials page--Acer4666 (talk) 15:10, August 23, 2014 (UTC)
If the hostage was revealed to be a government worker, which page would you put him on? --William (talk) 04:00, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
A government worker posing as a businessman?? That would make him a spy... he would go in unnamed terrorists, naturally! Blue Rook  talk  contribs 04:41, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
No no no, I mean, forget the fact that he had been credited as a businessman. Just consider him as a government worker in the show. Where would we place him? Still on this page? --William (talk) 05:44, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Well yeah if he was a government official in the show he would go on this page--Acer4666 (talk) 09:46, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
Personally, I'm not very supportive of adding the day 9 hostages but if you guys insist, I'll be fine with that. But if we adaot this, we need to be consistent: we also need to add the phone-taking aides (played by Margaret Easley, Dana Walters, and Stacy Solodkin), Sangalan gov't worker (Shakes Myeko), embassy aide (Bizeki Magwanda) and perhaps the spokesman (Mark Henderson) and the floor manager (Richard Rosser)? I'm not sure whether the Palmer campaigner and Palmer aide from day 1 are qualified or not. --William (talk) 11:52, August 28, 2014 (UTC)
"Government employees" and "government officials" are not interchangeable terms. In other words, working for a government does not make one an official. "Official" implies decision-making power; a person whose only obvious duties are secretarial cannot be construed as an official, and should live in the civilian pages. Aides / staffers / and those without clearly understood positions I would say belong in civilians. Blue Rook  talk  contribs 03:16, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
That's not the definition of an "official" though. wikipedia spells it out pretty well - an official is anyone who holds an office (ie function or mandate), and a government official is someone who does that for the government either through election or just regular employment. It goes on to specifically mention bureaucrats, who are literally "office workers" or people who have desk jobs in the government.
The name could be changed to "unnamed government workers" if "official" is seemingly implying the wrong thing. But grouping people who work for the government together seems more natural than putting government workers in with the passers-by, pool cleaners, private businessmen etc. The other unnamed character pages group together people solely by area of work and mix in all levels of that work - ie medical staff includes people from the hospital receptionist and interns to senior doctors; army personnel ranges from privates to generals; terrorists from hired thugs to top level conspirators. Why can we not group together all the levels of people working in public administration too in exactly the same manner? It would be...dare I say it... inconsistent not to? :P --Acer4666 (talk) 11:02, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
The characters I'm talking about are secretaries. (Or they cannot be verified to be anything other than such.) And by "secretaries" I mean administrative support folks, not Secretary of State etc. My point is, I've never, ever heard of secretaries working for the government being called "government officials". I'm not attempting to stop you from proceeding however you want (except for the Floor Manager... godsakes, man!) but it still stands that a secretary working for the government is a government employee, and I've never heard them called "government officials". User talk:Blue Rook 18:43, August 29, 2014 (UTC)
OK it seems your problem is the word "official" rather than the way characters are being organised. Do you insist on the page being moved to "government employees" or "government workers" because of your secretary thing? I really don't see that being necessary, given the fact that wikipedia agrees with my definition of "official", but if you and others insist...--Acer4666 (talk) 02:14, August 30, 2014 (UTC)


Day 2 cabinet member voting yes Edit

In Day 2: 4:00am-5:00am, as the clock ticked coming back from a commercial break, one of the windows that came up was a scene of the 25th Amendment vote. At precisely 4:53:42, a deep distinctly male voice voted yes. Pictured at the moment were (from left to right) an unidentified male cabinet member, the Secretary of the Interior, and Vice President Jim Prescott.

As the yes was spoken, the Secretary of the Interior's mouth twitched so that it looked as though he cast the yes vote; however, we later heard the Secretary of the Interior vote no, and his voice didn't sound like the voice that voted yes at 4:53:42. Obviously Prescott didn't get to vote because he wasn't a cabinet member. The unidentified male cabinet member in the picture turned his head at about the time the vote was cast, so it was hard to tell whether he was the speaker or not.

Does anybody else want to say that the other guy in the picture was the one that voted yes? If not, should we create an entry for an unidentifiable male cabinet member that voted yes, kind of like the entry for the Secretary of Defense except lacking a specific cabinet position?--Sampson789 (talk) 06:22, October 16, 2014 (UTC)

Day 2 cabinet members in 2x24 Edit

I see that we have listed every single cabinet member as appearing in 2x24. Is there a reason for this? I don't see Alex (Day 2) or the Secretary of Agriculture (the ones who were videoing in from plane/car respectively) at all. Additionally, compare the cabinet members below between the two episodes.

Most of the members are the same - e.g. Secretary of Interior and Transportation are both there, but the three men on the Sec. Transportation's left have changed (in particular, Austin Tichenor/Sec. Treasury is no longer there). I believe all of these appearances should be removed--Acer4666 (Talk) 22:07, March 31, 2019 (UTC)

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